What you will hear in our discussion with Neal Schaffer:
- How to Build a Business from a Blog
- Launch a Book and Business from Your Blog
- How to Build Platform for Authors and Speakers
- Build a Strong Community and Profitable Biz from Blogging
- Maximize Your Social and Build a Profitable Business
Listen to ReLaunch Show on iPhone or Android App
More about our featured guest Neal Schaffer
Neal Schaffer is a Trilingual Social Media Strategy Consultant, Advisor, Author, and Speaker. He is the Author of Maximize Your Social and Founder of Maximize Social Business, Social Tools Summit, and the Social Media Center of Excellence.
- Maximize Your Social, Maximizing LinkedIn for Sales and Social Media Marketing, Windmill Networking: Maximizing LinkedIn
[00:00] Joel: As promised, author of Maximize Your Social. Now, this guy is a trilingual social media expert. My gosh, Neal Schaffer. Honey, can you believe it? He is on ReLaunch today for the very first time. What do you think?
[00:17] Dr. Pei: Oh yeah, I'm looking at his book right now. Maximizing Your Social.
[00:22] Joel: Indeed. Hey Neal, this is Joel. What's up?
[00:24] Neil Schaffer: Hey, Joel. A pleasure and honor to be here.
[00:26] Joel: And it's thrilling, to have you on as well. Appreciate your time, Neal. This show, it's highly practical because it is all about the relaunch and, specifically, how you did it. And while we've all experienced numerous launches and relaunches throughout our lives, I generally ask our guests to zero in on the relaunch that has been the most transformational for them and then we just unfold the story from there. And we'll do that with you here in just a few minutes, but, if it's okay with you, I'd like to start off the show with a quick piece of takeaway gold, Neal. Now, you have mastered the art and the science of pretty much all things social. You've spoken at a multitude of live events and then you and I got to hang out a little bit at Social Media Marketing World. That's where you and I first met each other and, boy, that was a lot of fun, wasn't it?
[01:20] Neil Schaffer: That was pretty epic, wasn't it?
[01:21] Joel: I thought so as well. Loved the event. It was the first time that I'd ever gone to a Social Media Marketing World. Looking forward to the 2016, event. Anyhow, lot of fun. What would you say, based on your experience, Neal, is the number one misunderstanding that authors, podcasters, content creators, that those folks have when it comes to maximizing social?
[01:46] Neil Schaffer: I think the number one problem they have or misunderstanding, misconception, whatever you wanna call it and I get these inquiries all the time. Just a few days ago on Facebook, “Hey, self-published author. Need help with social.” And what people, what the authors and podcasters, content creators are looking for is they're sort of looking at social as if it was a website, as if it was a pay-per-click campaign, as if it was an SEO campaign, as if it was an email marketing campaign, where they do something once and it gets viral and they become famous and they're done. As you all know, it doesn't work that way because number one, social media was made for people and it takes time to get to know people and sometimes you gotta be in the right place at the right time and being in the right place at the right time, you're there because of all the things you did to get you there.
[02:33] Neil Schaffer: It took me more than 200 events and six or seven years of social media speaking to be able to have my own session at the Social Media Marketing World, where I got to meet Martin Shervington and, from that, I got to meet you and here I am on this podcast, right. It would have never come about overnight. So, it takes time to create relationships. It takes time to build a platform. It takes a day in and day out investment. The sad thing is the authors, the podcasters, the content creators, you have the one thing that businesses want in order to engage with people on social and to build relationships and that's content and once you figure out how to leverage content to your benefit, you can see how it's really gonna help you build a really great and engaging community that's gonna support your business going forward.
[03:19] Joel: Very, very well said. So let me ask you this, so is the misunderstanding not knowing how to leverage content or is the misunderstanding it being similar to a pay-per-click kinda deal? Do it once and then you're off to the races?
[03:35] Neil Schaffer: Yeah, well there's two, two big misunderstandings. The first one is the basics of social, of really becoming an active social media user, on those networks that you wanna sell to. This is… I see people that don't even personally use Twitter, but all of a sudden, they're setting up a business page, sending out spammy links without understanding how it works. I have a friend, he's Director of PR for the local transportation agency, here in Orange County. He was trying to figure out how to use Facebook from a PR perspective. He started with a fake profile for his dog. This was a few years ago. I think we all have Facebook profiles now, right. But you gotta get out there and do it and get embedded in the community. Follow the people that are your competitors. See who engages with them. How they engage with them.
[04:15] Neil Schaffer: Do a lot of… And it's all public information. You've gotta get in. You gotta get embedded into the communities to get a better understanding of how it works. But once you do then, the next step is when you create your social media strategy, which is outlined in my book, Maximize Your Social, you get into the content base. In fact, I just yesterday… I don't like to promote my wares here, but just yesterday I created a new video workshop, specifically on how to use social media for content marketing, that I think would be really relevant. So, there's the infrastructure piece, which is understanding social at a deep level by becoming a deep member of it and analyzing what it ought to be, and the next piece then is, “Okay, where do I want to take my business? What content do I have? What are the communities gonna be? Where am I gonna put my emphasis and how am I gonna measure all of this and optimize over time?”
[05:02] Joel: Very, very cool. Great tips.
[05:05] Dr. Pei: Yeah, especially when he mentioned sometimes when we have a book or product ready then all of a sudden our social media profile is up and then link is up, but if we think about it, really in real… If we don't have an online marketing, just meeting people in person, we don't walk to a person and say, “Here's my link.”
[05:30] Joel: Yeah, here's my stuff.[chuckle]
[05:32] Neil Schaffer: That's exactly right. I like to say, “New tools, old rules.” The ways we do business with each other, we still buy from people we know, like and trust, right?
[05:39] Joel: Right.
[05:40] Neil Schaffer: Social media can help us meet more people. It can help, in some ways, accelerate that relationship, but you still need to go through the old rules and that's… Maybe that's a great summary of how this all works. Because if we talk about my own professional relaunch in the social media, Joel, maybe this is a great way to lead into it, it began by blogging and answering people's questions, and reaching out to people, and being there, and from that I developed content, I developed a community so that when I ended up self-publishing my first book on LinkedIn, it became best seller in the category, and that really propelled me, to all these other things. But it started the other way around, organically. I didn't have a business objective at the time, right? This is more of like a personal networking vehicle for me, a blog, and just helping people. But at the end of the day, I don't care if you're an author, podcaster, content creator, you wanna help people, you're passionate about helping people, that's why you do these podcasts weekly, right Joel? That's why I do weekly podcasts. We continue to blog and write and it's taking that passion and using social media, and now taking it to a whole new level, once you do that you begin to build people that like you, and know you, and trust you through your content.
[06:49] Joel: Pei?
[06:50] Dr. Pei: So Neal, when you just started out that blog and communicating with your new community, what was your goal at the time? What were you doing in your business?
[07:01] Neil Schaffer: So my background, I have sort of a unique story, I am American but I went to Japan immediately after I graduated from college, and the other two languages I speak outside of English are Japanese, and Chinese, so…
[07:15] Dr. Pei: Seriously? My sister and my mom, well…
[07:19] Joel: And you, and you.
[07:20] Dr. Pei: Right, we're Chinese, but my sister and my mom also speak Japanese because they lived there for a few years, I think a town called, Fukuoka.
[07:31] Neil Schaffer: Fukuoka, yeah, I was just talking about Fukuoka with an Israeli, on a call before this. [Chinese] [laughter] I'll stop talking Chinese, but it's a small world.
[07:42] Dr. Pei: Wow.[Japanese]
[07:45] Neil Schaffer: They sing that in Japanese.
[07:46] Dr. Pei: Yeah, my sister loves Japanese songs.
[07:49] Neil Schaffer: Okay, so I was unique in that I came back to the United States with a wife and with a baby, and when we had our second baby, I was actually in transition for the first time in the United States, this was February of 2008, all of my network was in Asia, I did business in Japan, China, Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan. I came back to an area that I didn't grow up in, so I didn't have a network and I knew that in the business world, the hidden job market, it's all about the networking… So at that case… Excuse me, are we gonna have someone edit out these “Mms,” And coughs?
[08:22] Joel: Probably not, go ahead.
[08:23] Dr. Pei: Absolutely not.[laughter]
[08:27] Joel: No way, we got the Japanese song.
[08:31] Neil Schaffer: Oh that's perfect.
[08:32] Joel: We go on with it all. This is real, baby, come on!
[08:36] Neil Schaffer: Yeah, keeping it real! Okay, so when I came back I realized I needed to build a network and it needed to be targeted, in my community and my industry here in United States, and that's where I began to leverage LinkedIn. Now, February 2008, Twitter wasn't really around, Facebook was just for college students, LinkedIn was the default network for professionals, the problem was people are only using it to connect with people they knew. I realized, now this does not work anymore, but back then if you did a search for LinkedIn expert, social media expert, the person with the most connections ended up on top in the LinkedIn search engine. So you could imagine how beneficial it was to gain a lot of connections, which was why you had this LinkedIn open network or LION community… It doesn't work that way anymore and I'm not a fan of the whole LION thing right now and just building out connections with people that are probably bots, or they just want your email address to sell to someone.
[09:29] Neil Schaffer: But, back then that's the way it worked. So I worked really hard, I joined a lot of groups and I really wanted to learn LinkedIn myself, but as I learned it, I realized that I was using it as a business tool but other people weren't. And from that, I began to reach out to people on personalized emails, “Hey, if I can be of any help, if you have any LinkedIn questions, let me know.” And from that, I started to respond to people and I started to say, “You know what? When I find my next job, I'm gonna start a blog.” So I found my job, and the job became completely irrelevant to what I was doing in social media, by the way, but I realized that the networking was gonna help me in my future career, whether doing sales, biz dev and marketing, or the next time around, because working in the corporate world, it's a revolving door, right? You're in one day and out the next and that was my rude awakening three months later.
[10:15] Neil Schaffer: But I started my WordPress.com blog on LinkedIn, because they used to have an app called WordPress that allowed me to do it. It was called, “Expert Answers to your LinkedIn Questions,” It was great for SEO but not very personally branded. And I literally started that the week I started my new job. I started with a few blog posts and if you go to maximizesocialbusiness.com, which is my current site, you can actually see what those original ones look like. But it was really a personal networking vehicle of being able to answer questions, and pay it forward and help people. And when people ask me a question then I could send them a link and say, “Hey, check out my answer here.” And that's how I built this community. And I did a few posts, I slowed down because work got busy, but then three and a half months later after finding my first job in the US, they decided to pull the plug on international sales, so it's like, “Whoa!” I'm a really passionate person, I'd only worked at three companies in my 17-18 year career, so I'm pretty loyal, and that was my awakening that said I needed to build something that no-one can take away from me, and that was my brand.
[11:17] Joel: So I was still looking to work corporate, but I got more and more into blogging and getting deeper into answering all these questions and it was the Lehman Brothers Crash in 2008, in the Fall and Winter, very hard to find a job. And the challenge was I was looking for a job in Asia where I could be based in the United States, and all of these companies that are gonna hire now are saying, “You know what? We'll just hire someone locally, why do we need to hire someone from the US to send out there and pay extra travel fees?” So I did get second, third interviews in February and March, I had three companies on my radar and my wife said, “Neal, in Japan e-books are really popular, maybe you should write a book?” And I'm like, “I don't wanna be an author!” I've never wanted to be an author, right?
[11:58] Dr. Pei: Seriously? Wow!
[11:59] Neil Schaffer: But I told my wife, I go, “Okay, you know. There's only so much of a runway, you have from a financial perspective. If I do not land these three jobs,” because when you're in the job market things come in streams. I said, “If I don't land these three, it's going to be another several weeks or few months. So if I don't land either of these three, I'll write the book.” And I ended up writing the book. And the first 25% of the book came from my blog. And I published it, and it's called “Windmill Networking: Understanding, Leveraging & Maximizing LinkedIn.” I published in September 2009. I published on BookSurge, which was later acquired by CreateSpace which was an Amazon subsidiary at the time, but when I self published in 2009 it was still very, very early. There weren't the resources that you have now.
[12:42] Joel: Okay, so talk about… You're blazing through this stuff way too fast. Talk about using a percentage of your blog articles as content for…
[12:53] Dr. Pei: I called that, too.
[12:54] Joel: For your book. Because that is a killer if you unpack that a little bit, because so many of the people that listen to this show, they already have a blog or they dabble in blogging, every now and then. And really the point is obvious. That's the beginning of your book, or that's stuff that you can weave together. So yeah, take it and go.
[13:19] Neil Schaffer: Of course. And that's where we get into that, after you have your infrastructure and you get social, when you get into the strategic… And you create your strategy after reading “Maximize Your Social,” you then get into the application with the content, right? So really, it begins with… This is the easiest way to think about it. What are the 12 things that I want to tell my audience about what they need to understand about any given subject?
[13:41] Joel: Right.
[13:42] Neil Schaffer: Take 12 things. I say 12 things, it's like 12 chapters.
[13:45] Joel: Yeah, yeah.
[13:46] Neil Schaffer: It's 12 podcasts if you do a podcast monthly.
[13:48] Dr. Pei: Yes.
[13:48] Joel: 12 blog articles if you do a blog.
[13:50] Neil Schaffer: Right. My background is more sales and Biz Dev, than marketing in all honesty. So I think extremely rational, because I had to manage sales people that I had to give them… I had to really dumb down instructions for them to be efficient at their job. So this is where I look at social as well. It's not about the fluff, let's look at this rationally. If you could come up with 12 things, okay, and if you could come up within those 12 subjects four bullet points of what you want to talk about, and if you could write 1000-word blog posts for each of those four bullet points, you now have a 48,000 word book which is, I'd say, a pretty standard book.
[14:25] Joel: Right.
[14:25] Neil Schaffer: I'd say if you have between 35… Well let's say between 40 and 50,000 words, I think that's a really, really good size. My first books was like 75,000. My second one ended up being 45,000 and my third one 55,000. But if we think in terms of word count, 12 topics, four bullet points per topic, and you know what? I know there's a lot of podcasters listening, I'm a podcaster as well. I podcast under “Maximize Your Social.” I've published about a 110 episodes. I'm really bad at promoting my stuff, but hopefully after this you'll check it out. But you can take your podcast, okay, if you do a 20 minute podcast and you write a transcript of it by using very, very cost efficient services overseas and then editing them afterwards, for a very little amount of money, I'd say a 20-minute podcast will deliver 4-5,000 words of content. So if you podcast about each of these, you can then take a transcription and summarize it and you have your blog post. If you haven't blogged or podcasted about any of the bullet points, well it's time to start doing that. And you literally blog or podcast your book, you get to the point where it's ready.
[15:26] Neil Schaffer: Now when it's ready, it's gonna be a little bit rough around the edges. That's where I highly recommend you work with an editor. A freelance editor, not going to be cheap, but I tell you it is well worth the money to help you wrangle your content and get it so it is gonna be more readable, and therefore, more accepted in the market when you end up publishing it. Those are the first two steps. The first one's the hardest, but you know your content. It's just a matter of planning it out in a rational way, executing. Once you get it edited, I mean all it takes to get a book up on Kindle right now is a Word document. You need to format and get images, and that would be another person I recommend you work with. But six years ago these people didn't exist.
[16:06] Neil Schaffer: But now there's so many people, there are programs you can use online, there's so many resources out there and it's so easy to do. And by the way, if you're curious… I know some of you are like, “Well you know… ” If you look at the cover of “Maximize Your Social” on the bottom right hand it has this little corporate symbol, called Wiley. Wiley is one of the major business book publishers. So my first two books were done through CreateSpace Amazon. My last book was done with Wiley. If you're curious… I won't say why I went with the major publisher for my last book, but I can introduce you to a major publisher like Wiley. The first thing that they're going to ask you, though, is how big is your platform.
[16:42] Dr. Pei: Yep.
[16:42] Neil Schaffer: How many are [16:43] ____. They don't care… I won't say they don't care about your content. It's going to be a given that you have good content. They are about your platform. If you do not have a robust platform, do not ask for the introduction. I will not give it to you. I know that they won't accept it. So you need to build a platform first. Self publish first. I am an example of someone who self published first, and then got the contract with a major publisher. There used to be a big stigma in the market about that. Stigma does not exist anymore because it's all about the money. The big publishers are merely distribution houses with great editors, great graphic designers, and great printers. But you need to do the marketing anyway.
[17:19] Dr. Pei: You know, you just packed a ton of content in this few minutes because we are 100 or 200% in agreement with you. Out first book, not many people know it. We released it with CreateSpace just paperback. And we had the launch party and all that good stuff. And the second one it was through a publisher, but those tips you shared, I really hope our listeners paid attention to it because so many authors and podcasters or future author podcasters are tuning into this show.
[18:07] Neil Schaffer: Yeah.
[18:08] Dr. Pei: Right.
[18:08] Neil Schaffer: And you know what? I went from blogging, I started blogging 2008. I didn't start podcasting til early 2014. So, probably a lot of you on the line have been podcasting a lot further than I have. And I just wanna say, I podcast… I mean, it's a great medium. I'm a speaker. So, audio speaking is natural to me, right? But I also wanna get my content into that amazing search engine that is iTunes. I blog to get content into the amazing search engine that is Google. If you do video, you wanna get into the amazing… So, Kindle is another amazing…[chuckle]
[18:44] Dr. Pei: It's a true lingo thing, going on now.
[18:47] Neil Schaffer: Yeah. You got it, exactly. It's an amazing search engine for authors. And that's why, just get a book up on Kindle. And there's so much bad content on there, that if you're really good, it'll really stick out and you'll be recognized.
[19:04] Dr. Pei: I totally agree. And sometimes we think, “Oh, do we have enough to write a book?” But what you said earlier, not only make it easier especially for existing bloggers and podcasters to put together their existing content to put out a book, but also 12 chapters, four bullet points, that actually breaks down a big goal of writing a book into small actionable steps. So…
[19:34] Neil Schaffer: That's all you need, yeah…
[19:34] Dr. Pei: Yeah. Thank you for that.
[19:35] Neil Schaffer: And that's how I tackle anything in life. And that's why even the daunting aspect, of a social media strategy, hopefully once you re-maximize your social, the first third is that social media education, the second third is all about the communities and getting deeper understanding of it, and the third, third is the actual creation and application of the strategy. So, there's logical steps, and once you take them, it seems daunting. But it's totally doable. That's how people do it and that's how you can do it as well. This is about relaunching, right?
[20:04] Joel: Yes.
[20:04] Neil Schaffer: I want you… The biggest thing, the biggest takeaway I hope you get from this, is the relaunch into execution. I work with clients that hire me for strategies. They never execute on the damn thing. It's about the execution. Don't be afraid. Don't procrastinate. Those are the two killer things. Read some of Seth Godin's books about the Lizard Brain. There's something psychological that keeps us from doing innovative things. But, go out there and do it because you know what? Joel, before we started the recording on the podcast, you were talking about “Neal, have you ever had any life changing things?” Every time, I've had arthroscopic surgery. I play adult soccer and stuff, long story. But, and I've had endoscopies, where they put a camera down your stomach and stuff. So, anytime you've ever been under anesthesia, and then you wake up, and if the anesthesia is still in your body, you feel a little bit faint or they put an oxygen mask on you and say, “Neal, will you breathe deeper?”
[21:01] Dr. Pei: Right.
[21:02] Neil Schaffer: And you see your own blood pressure. Like, “Why is my blood pressure 90/45 and there's like… “
[21:07] Dr. Pei: So low.
[21:08] Neil Schaffer: Yeah. So, when you have that experience that I have… When I studied abroad in China my junior of college, I feel into the Heilongjiang, which is a river in Harbin, China. And I feel into a deep river in the ice. The ice underneath cracked.
[21:22] Dr. Pei: You were one of those?
[21:23] Neil Schaffer: Yeah. I was able to actually pull myself up and, thank God, the ice around me did not crack and I was able to walk away. I was in Alishan, Taiwan, on a mountain and there was a typhoon, that came in. We had to walk down the mountain. There was a bridge that was, I don't know, maybe 100 yards that had actually washed out. All that was remaining was the gutter, and we all straddled the gutter and it would have been a 30 or 40 foot drop if I had lost my balance.
[21:49] Joel: Wow.
[21:50] Neil Schaffer: And those two things happened in the same year. Whenever you have an experience like that, you wanna take advantage of life. As my brother likes to say, the older you get, you wanna leave a legacy. You wanna leave a business legacy. Career is an important part of your existence. Leave something lasting. The only way to do that is if you're successful. So, you just gotta go out there and do it.
[22:09] Joel: Absolutely. Talking with Neal Schaffer, today. The book is called Maximize Your Social. Neal, coming in for a landing on this one. I really appreciate your time. You're welcome back here on ReLaunch any time. And, it would be easy for me to ask you to elaborate further on what the readers can expect when they read Maximize Your Social. You've done a fantastic job in packing in some tremendous punch, and action items in our show today. Let me ask you this, as you were, and this is the last question, as you were putting the finishing touches on Maximize Your Social, what did you get from this book that maybe may have surprised you?
[22:53] Neil Schaffer: It's funny, I just responded to an interview question that asked me what was the main inspiration. And it's funny because when Wiley reached out to me, I was actually already done with a Twitter book that I'll be releasing in an ebook format soon, and I had two other content ideas. I'd been negotiating with a Japanese publisher, for the record, on another book. And the third idea was I do social media strategy consulting, I can re-purpose the strategies I've created and the concepts and the framework, and I can re-purpose that new book. And the Wiley folks said, you know what, “That should be your platform book. You should teach everything you know in that book.” and I thought, “Do I really wanna give away all the secret sauce?” This was the first book written on how to create a social media strategy. So, I always wanted to hide content or, “Hey, sign up for my $99 course.” or but I realized when I quit my first job in China, I was a general manager of China sales for a semiconductor company. I built up a team of 15. And when I gave my farewell speech to everyone's surprise at the beautiful hotel in Hangzhou, China…
[24:00] Neil Schaffer: I told everyone around me that they needed to do better than I did. They needed to exceed what I did and they could because I was also moving on to a higher and more valuable places. I saw Maximize Your Social… Sort of closing a chapter on the work that I was doing that now here's a book that can help you create your own social media strategy. This is the science. I wanna help you at the more high-value added art, for lack of better word, the art of it, of the actual application in all the things that you're gonna be hitting and really having a deeper relationship with you after the strategy.
[24:42] Neil Schaffer: So for me, pun intended, it helped me close a chapter of obviously it helped me give all that I know out to the world so they knew the calibre of person I was, which is gonna help me build community and help me sell anything I wanna do in the future. But yeah, it's really a… Networking is, you have an objective for networking and meeting people and engaging in social media but you also… The more you have the concept of paying it forward and being selfless in how much you share, those are the people that really get ahead and make really, really deep connections in social media.
[25:14] Dr. Pei: Very cool.
[25:15] Neil Schaffer: So, that's sort of what I got out of doing the book and if I had the choice, I would've done it the same back then than I would do tomorrow.
[25:25] Dr. Pei: Just out of curiosity, in the future, I plan to speak in China but being this many years in the US, my Chinese, I felt like I communicate mainly English so did you speak in Chinese when you went there to speak? Earlier, you mentioned…
[25:41] Neil Schaffer: No.
[25:42] Dr. Pei: Okay.
[25:42] Neil Schaffer: It's funny, I speak on social media in Japanese and I've done like four-hour workshops on social media marketing in Japanese. I've spoken in Kuala Lumpur, where we did have a lot of Chinese-speaking, we had like Huawei and some other Chinese companies there but that was done in English. China for me is different, and my wife being Japanese I don't speak a lot of Chinese anymore. And China has their own social media game because they block unless you have virtual private network you cannot access Facebook. The only one you can access is LinkedIn but I digress, but the way that they, with the exception of WeChat, which is the most important one, Weibo, is like Twitter, right? And they're like Facebook.
[26:22] Dr. Pei: I use WeChat.
[26:23] Neil Schaffer: Okay, yeah. So WeChat is really unique and when you start to use WeChat I use LINE in Japan, which is not as powerful as WeChat but you begin to see the power of mobile and it's something that we don't have… I think that's gonna be the future of mobile social in the States, we're not there yet. The speaking in China, your challenge is gonna be understanding those local networks and understanding the businesses, they're really savvy. There's already a lot of businesses using them, right? But I think the interesting thing that I've always been targeting for China that maybe you could as well is that Chinese brands always want to export to the United States or overseas and that's the biggest help you can give them is to help educate them on the foreign social media market, which on the flip side is gonna be different from the local Chinese one.
[27:07] Dr. Pei: Mm-hmm. Thank you.
[27:09] Neil Schaffer: And that would be my approach. Oh, you're very welcome.
[27:10] Dr. Pei: Thank you so much for being on our show, and to access Neal's book… Actually all your contact information's gonna be on joelboggess.com/334.
[27:23] Joel: /334. Neal Schaffer is our guest today. Neal, pleasure having you on. Thank you so much. You're welcome to come back here any time, my friend. Have a wonderful rest of your day.
[27:34] Neil Schaffer: I appreciate it, Joel. Thanks to everyone and keep listening everybody.
[27:38] Dr. Pei: And sayonara.
[27:41] Neil Schaffer: Sayonara.
[27:43] Dr. Pei: That's Japanese, right? To say bye.
[27:46] Joel: Yeah. Z√†iji√†n. Zeh w√®h in Shanghai.
[27:48] Dr. Pei: Yeah, Z√†iji√†n, mm-hmm.
[27:50] Joel: Bye-bye.
[27:52] Neil Schaffer: Yeah. We'll see you.
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