What You Will Hear:
- Feel Like Being Cornered by Life? Getting Life Back after Divorce
- Getting Settled Again after Divorce and Bankruptcy
- Life and Career Reset after Divorce – David’s Story
- Going Back to School after 40? David’s Story
Listen to ReLaunch Show on iPhone or Android App
More about our featured guest
This successful podcast coach was once divorced, bankrupted and in a job he did not like. Founder of “School of Podcasting” David Jackson shares his story.
If the possibility of having a podcast is part of your relaunch strategy, you don’t want to miss this show.
The DEAN of podcasting, David Jackson, is our guest.
He's the go-to guy for creating and growing your show, and turning it into a viable and relevant piece of your business.
[00:05] Joel: Welcome to ReLaunch, your daily dose of inspiring stories, fresh ideas, practical steps and solutions. You can think of this show as being your personal prescription for relaunching into the life and the business that you love. And if you are a daily listener, welcome back to the show, and thank you for tuning in and for being involved in the before and the after show online conversations. And if you are new here, just know that you are among friends. And hey, Pei, joining us on the show today…
[00:43] Joel: Hey, would it be okay if I just call this guy the “Dean of Podcasting”? Would that be okay?
[00:49] Pei: You mean Dean David?[laughter]
[00:52] Joel: I like that.
[00:52] Pei: Dean Dave.
[00:53] Joel: I like that. You know, this guy is the go-to guy for creating and growing your show and also for turning it into a viable and a relevant piece of your business. His show and his training organization is called the School of Podcasting. Of course, I am talking about the amazing and incredible David Jackson. David, welcome, welcome to ReLaunch.
[01:21] Dave: You guys are making me blush.[laughter]
[01:23] Dave: Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
[01:26] Joel: It is fantastic to have you on and we definitely wanted to thank our mutual friend, Leesa Renee Hall also known as Leesa Barnes, for making the introduction and making this happen. We're excited to have you here.
[01:41] Dave: Yeah. Leesa is great, and, yeah, this is gonna be a lot of fun.
[01:43] Joel: Indeed. David, as you know, this show was all about the ReLaunch, and while all of us have experienced numerous launches and relaunches throughout our life I generally ask our guests to zero in on the one relaunch that has been the most significant or that has been the most transformational for them, and then just kind of unfold the story from there, and we'll do that here in just a few minutes, if that's okay with you. But before we get in to that, if we can start out our conversation a little bit more lighthearted, if you don't mind. Now, you're a podcast coach and you've helped so many people get their show off to a rocket start, and I'm just curious what has been one of the funniest or one of the more outrageous podcasting ideas that someone has come to you with?[laughter]
[02:37] Joel: And has actually taken action on.
[02:40] Dave: I've had people that wanna podcast from their car like they wanna record it on the way to work, and I'm like, “That's usually where you're listening to shows, not recording them.”
[02:49] Joel: Right, right.
[02:50] Dave: They've done that and it just… It's an interesting idea. I don't know if it's the safest idea. I told them, I was like, “I'm not sure that's the safest thing in the world”, but they did a couple of shows, and they finally said that it's just hard to talk and drive, and it's kind of weird, like you're talking to somebody that's sitting in the passenger seat, but in the end, they're like, “Yeah, you're right, this is… ” It's hard to focus on what they wanna say and somebody would cut them off or whatever. There was a detour.
[03:19] Joel: Then they have to edit out that bleep or something like that.
[03:21] Dave: Yeah.
[03:21] Pei: Hey… So…
[03:22] Dave: Then they'd have to go on a detour and all the sudden, they'd lose their train of mind, so they had to do so much post editing that they're like, “It just… I can just do this at home and not have to do the editing, and it takes half the time.”
[03:35] Joel: Sure.
[03:35] Pei: So, in the future, they're gonna have to put up a sign that says, “Do not podcast and drive” instead of “Do not text and drive.”
[03:45] Dave: That will be good. Yeah, I just saw somebody in a Facebook group that said, “What's the best dynamic microphone that you can use while driving?” And I was just like, “Man, that's just not a good idea.” [chuckle] So…
[03:55] Joel: Exactly. That's pretty funny. Well, at least they tried though. Right?
[04:00] Dave: Yeah.
[04:00] Joel: And hopefully, nobody was injured in their little experiment.
[04:05] Dave: Yeah. Absolutely.
[04:07] Joel: Alright. So, talking about the ReLaunch, how do we get into this, David? David's relaunch, what do you think?
[04:15] Dave: Well, it really is hard to pick… Do I have to pick one? Can I do one if it's like 30 seconds long?
[04:21] Joel: Absolutely.
[04:22] Pei: You can take one and a half.
[04:23] Dave: Okay. One and this will be the half.[laughter]
[04:26] Dave: When I was in high school, if I knew you, like my friends… My close friends which most of them either lived next to me or were related to me, I would talk your ear off, but if I didn't know you, I was painfully shy. And I got hired as a grocery bagger, and to make a long story short, I said I'd keep it short, I got fired because I had a hard time talking to customers. I was just again, painfully shy, which is kind of weird to think that I grew up to be a guy that talks in front of people for a living. And how I got out of that shell was my teacher at the time said, “Look, you gotta just… This isn't gonna work.” And he looked at my best friend who was just Mr. Monkey hour, he was outgoing and just always talking. He said, “You need to be more like your friend, Scott.” And I'm like, “That's just not gonna happen.” And he said, “If you act the way you wanna be, someday you'll be the way you act.” So, in other words, fake it 'til you make it. And… So, I just did. I started to try to act like I was outgoing and eventually it got more and more comfortable doing that, and now, you can't shut me up. So, that would be like my first makeover, where I was just like, “Alright, I've just gotta come out of my comfort zone and keep going.” But when we're talking about really transforming yourself something, the more… The hotter the fire right, the better the steel probably or something like that. It's the different things you go through.
[05:53] Joel: Sure.
[05:54] Dave: And I was thinking about that and I'm like… And it came a time… I'd been married for about 11 years and to make a, again, this could be a really long story. But, my wife and I were trying to have a kid against some physical hurdles that she had. And to make a long story… I keep saying that. I'm making…[laughter]
[06:13] Dave: But, we spent ourself into bankruptcy trying to have a kid through different fertility treatments and things like that. I do not recommend putting fertility treatments on a credit card after you burn through your savings account. At that point, that's when you should stop. And, she, well, any time you are in that situation, it's a hard one. To me, I tried to keep light. Say, “Well, look at this, we won't have to put money out for college. It's more money for us. We'll travel when we're old. It's just the two of us. Here we go.” And she just didn't handle it well. To make a long story short, we ended up in divorce. Although, I'll leave out all the gross details. But at any rate, here I was now. We were bankrupt. Neither one of us could take on the house. So, I was gonna lose my house, and luckily, I had a brother. I moved in with my brother. And so there I was, and I was in a job I really, really hated. I'd just gone through a divorce and lost my house which is just a weird thing. And it was really just like, “Wow.”
[07:13] Dave: I knew her for five years. We were married for 10. So, there's 15 years of my life just down the drain. And I'm like, “Oh, okay.” And I had a friend of mine, 'cause I was doing training. I've always been a trainer. I teach people technology. But I was at a company that just, when I joined them, they were awesome and we were doing this great training. And they kept adding more and more features to their product and cutting the time to train it. So, think about that. The product is getting more robust, and you're giving me less time to cover the features. So, by the time I finally left there, it was ridiculous, and it was just a really just frustrating position to be.
[07:51] Dave: My friend heard me talk about this all the time and said, “You should come work for me.” He goes, “You're a trainer. I'll teach you how to be Cisco-certified, which is in geeky terms, that's a really cool technical certification you can have, and you can pretty much write your own ticket.” I'm like, “Really?”, and he's like, “Yeah!” and I'm like, “Well, awesome. I'll come work for you.” and even though I've always heard don't go to work for friends. Well, the second time he couldn't make payroll, I went, “Oh, this is going to end badly.” and I politely told him, I said, “Hey, I'll still work here. But just so you know, I think I'm gonna go back to school or I'm gonna go try to get another job,” and he was not very happy about that, and I did lose a friendship through that. It's over the years kind of come back. But at the time, it was really painful 'cause I was like, “I got bills to pay, buddy.”
[08:37] Joel: Sure.
[08:38] Joel: And, so I went to go get another job and my original degree was in Electronic Engineering, and I'd done training for, at that point, about 15 years. So, I had this great resume of all the experience, but I didn't have that piece of paper that said you know how to do training. And as frustrating as it is, in some cases, places will not talk to you, and in this case, unless I had a Bachelor's Degree in Education. So, I thought about it and I was getting ready to move out of my brother's house because I'm like, “Look, I'm back on my feet.” The lawyer's fees have been paid, and I went to work for my friend. That fell apart and I said, “Man, this just stinks. Now, I'm without a job and I have no place to live. But I'm gonna get out of your hair. I told you I would.” My brother said, “No, no, no, no, no, no.” He goes, “You have something that most people don't have.” and I go, “What's that?” He goes, “You get to decide what you wanna be when you grow up.”[laughter]
[09:34] Dave: And I'm like, “Well, I know I wanna be a trainer. I've been always doing this. I just don't have the piece of paper.” So he said, “Well, hey. You've already got one degree. It will probably take you two years to get the other one.” He goes, “Just hang out here. You're never here. You're in the basement all the time, and it's not a big deal.” So, yeah. At the ripe old age of, I think I was 42, I went back to school which was great fun because you'd walk in and people would go, “Oh, are you the teacher?”[laughter]
[09:57] Dave: And I'm like, “Uh, no.”
[09:58] Joel: “Absolutely!” and then start accepting your bribes right there.
[10:04] Dave: Yeah. And so it was a little different to go back to school. But in the end, it was just one of those things you have to do. And again, it takes you out of your comfort zone. Although for me it wasn't… Yeah, I just found out that things that were, I call them ‘common sense', they're actually called the ‘ADDIE approach' in the educational world. And I'm like, “Oh, okay. I'll just mark that down. Common sense is analyze, design, decide, implement, and evaluate.” I'm like, “That's just common sense to me.”
[10:33] Joel: Go ahead, Pei.
[10:34] Pei: So, how did you figure out what degree you were going after at that time?
[10:40] Dave: Well, there were a couple things. I knew I always enjoyed training in the corporate world. That's where I… When I originally had my degree, I'd done training for a company, and I always enjoyed that. And I was like, “Well, how do I get back into the corporate world to do training?” and I was living in Akron, Ohio, and called them and they said, “Oh, you need a Bachelor's Degree in Education.” And actually, I'd heard that come up because I was applying to different jobs, and they're like, “Well, this is weird. You don't have a Bachelor's Degree in Education.” And about the fifth time I heard that I'm like, “Alright. Well, I guess my experience is gonna be just overlooked because they wouldn't even talk to me unless I had that degree.” So I was like, “Well, back to the drawing board” which is disheartening because I won't say my degree was worthless, but I did know most of the stuff that was in the class just 'cause I've been doing it so long. But I got to do fun things like communication theory, and philosophy, and all these other fun-filled classes that they get to fill in there.
[11:43] Dave: And so, yeah. I finally made it through that. Took most of my classes online which was fun because I do most of my classes now online. So, I got to really understand what it's like to be the student, so I could then turn around and be a teacher and understand the frustrations of taking classes online, and the limitations, and things like that.
[12:02] Joel: Very good story. I really appreciate you sharing that. Let me ask you this, Dave. What are some of the things that you learned, or that you've relearned about yourself, as you started developing your business? And the reason I ask you this… That is because, as Pei and I work with people and help them to set the stage for their own relaunch, there's a lot of learning, or relearning that takes place, and you probably know what I'm talking about here. Learning about your own potential, your own possibilities, your own value, and learning about your own worthiness. So, I'm just thinking… I'm curious, rather, what are some of the things that you connected with, or reconnected with as you've started to grow and develop the business, yours?
[12:51] Dave: It kind of takes… My problem is, I get distracted by so many shiny things. If it's technology, if it's training, if it's creative, you have my undivided attention. That's why I love podcasting because it's all three, and… So I had to… And then throw on top of that, family and everything else that is part of your responsibility. So I really had to learn to focus and prioritize, because… One of the reasons I have… I have a separate office, in an office building, for my consulting stuff, is… I'm so passionate about podcasting that, I would be home, and I would tell my wife, “I'm gonna go check my e-mail for about ten minutes,” and I would come out an hour and a half later. And… [laughter] After about the 4,000th time of doing that, she said, “We need to talk about this podcasting thing.” And so… She knew that this was something I was really into, but she also knew that… “I'm spending a lot of time in the living room waiting for you to come out of your office.” And so, we just sat down and said, “Okay, how can we… How can we make this co-exist?” And she said, “Here is the deal, I want you to do this. Obviously, you're good at it. You love it… ” She's like, “But give me a couple of days a week. I'll give you a couple of days a week, I think we'll both be happy.”
[14:03] Dave: So that's basically what we do. We do Monday and Thursday, we call those ‘Dave cave' nights, and then, part of Saturday. And then, the rest of the time, is just basically family time.
[14:12] Joel: ‘Dave cave,' I like that.
[14:13] Dave: Yeah. So, it was a matter of learning to focus, and… It's weird, because at first I thought, “Oh my gosh. I've been doing this stuff, basically seven days a week, 24/7, whenever I can. I'm doing this… This isn't gonna work.” But it actually works better, because now, on Tuesday and Wednesday… During my lunch hour, or whatever I'm doing, I'm making notes of what I'm gonna do when I get back to my office. So when I get here on a Thursday, I've got a list of, “Okay, I'm gonna do this audio editing, I'm gonna research this product, whatever it is… To develop content, edit content, publish content… ” I know exactly what I'm gonna do, as opposed to, “Well, I'll do a little bit of this, and that, and this… ” And I'm just, kind of, a ricochet rabbit pinging all over the place.
[14:55] Dave: I now have a true path of, “Okay, when I get there on Monday, when I get there on Thursday, here is what I'm gonna do… ” And it sounds weird, but it actually works better. By cutting my time, I'm actually more productive.
[15:08] Joel: Okay, now… I'm loving this conversation that we're having here, Dave, because this is full of gold for the Relaunch Nation, and… Even if some of the people that are listening, are not necessarily podcasters, your idea of getting focused and carving out different days of, “I'm working on this during these days.” That can be… That's tremendously value-added, right, Pei?
[15:35] Pei: Yeah, and to set up… “At this location, I would do this. At the other location, I have a different type of work.” So, it kind of mentally trains us to be focused on the task in that particular location, too.
[15:55] Joel: Absolutely. So, as husbands and wives, or as partners are working together, creating their business, or individual businesses… Having that agreement of, “You know what? The ‘Dave cave' nights, or evenings, or days, are gonna be X, Y, and Z. And then, on those other days, I'm going to focus on these other priorities.” That's gold. I appreciate…
[16:19] Pei: Yeah, I agree…
[16:21] Joel: Go ahead, Pei.
[16:21] Dave: My wife would say things like, “Even when you're here, you're not here.” Because I was just… So, I just… It was a discipline I had to learn, and… It's one of those things. If you want to stay married, you've got to… There's give and take there. And I had to step back, and really take a hard look at myself and go, “You know what? You're right. When I am here, I'm still thinking about that e-mail, or I'm… ” Then I was like… So I just had to learn to focus on certain things at certain times, and… Because I… It's like I say, a lot of times, it's on my lunch hour, I'll be be like, “Okay, I'm gonna call this person,” or this and that… I use a program called, Asana. It's A-S-A-N-A, it's free. It's like a… Kind of project management tool.
[17:02] Joel: Love it.
[17:02] Pei: We'll use… We'll put that on the show note page… We absolutely love it.
[17:05] Joel: Absolutely. We use it.
[17:08] Dave: And what I love about it is, you can set up an e-mail address, so that when you forward it to that e-mail address, it will automatically make it a task. So now, I don't have to worry about letting things fall through the cracks, and “Oh, I have to remember all this stuff.” When it comes in, I'm like, “Oh, I need to work on this on Monday, or Thursday… ” I just forward it to Asana, and I know, at that point, I can quit worrying about it… Quit worrying about… It's… I'm not gonna forget it. It's there, and then when I do have a time, when it's like, “Okay, I can focus on this now.” Like I say, a lot of times it's my lunch hour. I'll just pull it up, and say, “Okay, yeah. This is what I need to do, and here's my steps, and prioritize. Where does this belong in the list?” And by doing that, it sounds weird, but by just freeing up your brain, to not have to remember 80 million things, you can then really focus on whatever it is that's right in front of you.
[17:51] Joel: Freeing up your brain, I like that. David Jackson, this has been a blast. I really appreciate you spending time with us here today, on ReLaunch. Schoolofpodcasting.com. Schoolofpodcasting.com, the place to go, and it's also the show to listen to if a podcast is part of your upcoming relaunch. David, this has been fun. Thank you so much for joining us today.
[18:20] Dave: Oh, you guys are great. Thank you so much for having me on the show.
[18:24] Joel: Have a wonderful, wonderful, rest of your day. Bye-bye.
Other podcast coaches and programs we fully believe in and have trained under.
Subscribe and receive a FREE Gift!
Download a book summary (PDF) of Finding Your Voice by editors of "Success Magazine"